Lost Rinkitink: hi folks. We are about to make a start
Lost Rinkitink: this table group is being led by Algernon
Lost Rinkitink: for those who are just joining us, welcome to this session and to IQ Island.
epredator Potato: ok everything we have a chat please do.
Lost Rinkitink: algernon is currently introducing this in real life at the office.
Algernon Spackler: hi everyone
Smokaaa Insoo: hello
Discharge Battery: hi
GetA Nap: hi everyone
Sten Szydlowska: hello
Lost Rinkitink: this chat is being logged.
Lost Rinkitink: Algernon will do a quick intro and then we can talk through some of the topics
GetA Nap: cool - can we get a copy of the chat
Algernon Spackler: yes.. let's assume it's all on the record
Algernon Spackler: is that ok with everyone?
Discharge Battery: ok
Algernon Spackler: if you hear cross-chat from the other table, move further this way :-)
Algernon Spackler: so - I'd like to very quikcly have everyone introduce themselves
Algernon Spackler: just one sentence.
Lost Rinkitink: please avoid changing between tables as we have some balance in the groups right now
Algernon Spackler: so, feel free to share who you are and what you do
Algernon Spackler: one line each.. go! :-)
Lost Rinkitink: I'm Lost Rinkitink, day job is IBM Software Services, involved as a greeter for IBMers in SL
Sten Szydlowska: I am Sten Szydlowska, journalist in Sweden
Garth Artaud: I'm Gauti Sigthorsson, lecturer and researcher in digital media and theory
Discharge Battery: Day job pre-sales manager and technical spokes person, IBM Sweden.
Algernon Spackler: I'm Roo Reynolds - IBM Metaverse Evangelist
Smokaaa Insoo: ok i'm Eric Le Bourlout in real life, i'm a journalist for a french publication called Sciences et Vie Micro
Haydern Otsuzum: I'm haydn shaughnessy. i write on digital culture in the irish times
GetA Nap: I am Peder Bjerge, Computerworld Denmark. Doing stories on new media
RenZephyr Zircon: I'm Ren Reynolds, writer on TerraNova & elsewhere, Philosopher, Marketing / Product Dev/ Business Strategy consultant
Oskar Wade: I'm Karolina Shaw and I'm IBM's accopunt manager at Text 100
Posey Plympton: I'm Katie Lee, I run blog publishing company, Shiny Media, and I'm also a freelancer for the Observer etc
Gromit Ostrich: Hello I work at IBM in Sweden with media relations
Multi Chair Coffee Table v1.0.39 (Blue and Black) whispers: Smokaaa Insoo took a copy of the Multi Chair Help notecard.
Algernon Spackler: quite a collection! We're still a few people short (some issues with teleporting after yesterday's update)
Timo Wilber: Hi, I'm Tom Sperlich, freelance journalist in Switzerland & writing often about VR stuff
Discharge Battery: We also have another journalist here in the room, writing for the swedish technical magazine Ny Teknik.
GetA Nap: why SL so interesting when we only have 9700 people logged on to SL right now?
Algernon Spackler: but we can get started anyway
Algernon Spackler: that's a good questions GetANap.
Algernon Spackler: Let's start with that
Algernon Spackler: why *is* SL so interesting to so many people at the moment?
Algernon Spackler: anyone have any views on that?
RenZephyr Zircon: is this just a free for all?
GetA Nap: why 9700 is not that many
Posey Plympton: Because it's an easy story for journalists!
Lost Rinkitink: Ren, feel free to comment
Algernon Spackler: Ren, I know you have been thinking about this on TerraNova?
GetA Nap: could be
Lost Rinkitink: algernon will take the lead with topics but feel free to suggest your own
Algernon Spackler: Ren: I have some questions I'd like to raise, and that was one of them :-)
Lost Rinkitink: Posey, in that case how come e.g. world of warcraft is not as easy a story? it's an interesting question.
RenZephyr Zircon: because SL is the neartest thing to the popular vision of the virtual, because LL do good PR, because they challenged just the right policy issues with a good spin
Garth Artaud: Who are the ones leading the discussions? Who have made SL a hot story?
GetA Nap: good question
Posey Plympton: Plus, as soon as Reuters and BBC etc get involved, people starting talking
Algernon Spackler: yes.. I've always thought the popular events drive uptake very heavily
Algernon Spackler: (though it makes you asks why the popular events happen too)
Lost Rinkitink: so is this a self-fulfilling prophecy in some way
Lost Rinkitink: if you build it, they will come
RenZephyr Zircon: also, because the virtual is framed in a way that does not raise too many nageative images at the moment, as i've writtne it is constructed in a way that, e.g. people do not associated it as a stie for sexual predation on children
Discharge Battery: Maybe it is interesting because it is not or it is more than a game. Maybe because it is an environment where almost all the content is created by the inhabitants.
RenZephyr Zircon: LL did not just build, they have used very clver PR, being at just the right events for about 3 years now, and not going too big too soon
Algernon Spackler: yes.. the aspect of user generated content is strong
Posey Plympton: There's also a real desire to find "the next big thing".
Sten Szydlowska: Another aspect is that SL is not the first virtual world. Others came first, educated the public. Like Skype on the IP telephony.
GetA Nap: where do you see the growth end for SL and LL?
RenZephyr Zircon: the producer / consumer mash-up meme has been big for a while. SL is a fine expression of that
Algernon Spackler: interesting question: what would slow or stop the grown ofthis platform?
Sten Szydlowska: spam
GetA Nap: yeah
Discharge Battery: Backwards compatibility, when there is a need for real platform change.
GetA Nap: too much comercial activities interrupting the social space
Garth Artaud: Someone might also come up with a lighter, easier platform.
Algernon Spackler: is spam inevitable here, as the popularity increases?
RenZephyr Zircon: technical limites, the press getting a downere on it coz of abuse or yesterdays sorty, or someone like IBM building a better one
GetA Nap: that too
Discharge Battery: The low limits on avatars/sim for example...
Algernon Spackler: I remember the mid 90s when email spam was rare
Smokaaa Insoo: exactly too much things to buy, few people to talk to
Haydern Otsuzum: what's a news hud?
Algernon Spackler: Ren mentioned mashups earlier. Do people think Virtual Worlds are an extension of Web 2.0?
RenZephyr Zircon: growth might slow down because of size and the lack of good search, there needs to be a google for SL because soon it will be hard to break in and find anything good
RenZephyr Zircon: i've argued for a while that virtual worlds need to integrated socail network software techincal much better
GetA Nap: how to make it more attractive for more people? any thoughts?
Lost Rinkitink: i think that is possible. In the case of SL, I think you need better tools around e.g. XML parsing within the environment to enable existing tools to interoperate more easily.
Garth Artaud: Integrate voice comms
Algernon Spackler: or.. as a related question: what would be in the perfect virtual world?
Posey Plympton: I think social networking web 2.0 elements will have to become more a part of SL
Smokaaa Insoo: a better 3d engine ??
Algernon Spackler: people do expect better graphics don't they? :-)
RenZephyr Zircon: i've called it s-space, the idea that one can integrated socail and virtual-physcal space much better, we need to visualize or access value contoucs based group ideas
Sten Szydlowska: As long as the worlds cannot speak with each others, it will not be web 2.0
RenZephyr Zircon: controus*
Lost Rinkitink: i personally think the 3d engine is less important than ease-of-use and tools
RenZephyr Zircon: exactly Lost
GetA Nap: yeah that would help and easier communication i e as speech
Lost Rinkitink: yes, Sten, that's a good point. What about interoperability between worlds?
Timo Wilber: where to get a news HUD?
RenZephyr Zircon: well in one woudl help, but
Lost Rinkitink: if e.g. Linden opensource the server and companies start operating their own versions, then it might be useful to be able to transfer in and out of "worlds"
Garth Artaud: Sten's point is good - right now SL and theother VWs are about as connected as a pair of malls in different suburbs
Lost Rinkitink: timo - HUD is available from Reuters island
RenZephyr Zircon: I've talked about the idea of an agreement on a core ID spec, that is extensiable in VWs but carries a basic set of attributes
Posey Plympton: If you could buy stuff in SL that translated into real goods that would be great.
RenZephyr Zircon: that is the key to the 'meterverse' as it can be solved, whereas client and visulasaion standars are harder
Lost Rinkitink: posey, have you looked at fabjectory?
Posey Plympton: No! Will do
Lost Rinkitink: they will 3d print objects. Limited today, but interesting technology.
GetA Nap: yeah - the closer the IR and SL are connected the more powerful the attraction
Lost Rinkitink: and also some stores are beginning to allow you to search e-commerce sites
Errol Mysterio: there's a prototyper now that prints it's own parts
Errol Mysterio: size of a fridge
Posey Plympton: I'm just waiting to go into SL topshop to try on clothes
Lost Rinkitink: how much fun would you find that....
RenZephyr Zircon: go American Apparal
Posey Plympton: since I hate RL shopping, would be much better
Lost Rinkitink: fair point!
RenZephyr Zircon: Rivers Run Red brought the first 'real life' designer to SL over 2 years ago btw
Lost Rinkitink: hi Snoopy
Lost Rinkitink: come and join us
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: shwoow, hi everyone, just made it through the tp haze
Errol Mysterio: Mrs Jones, her name was
RenZephyr Zircon: yes
Lost Rinkitink: you might want to move closer since you can avoid cross chat
RenZephyr Zircon: onad There did the levi's Nike deal aroudn teh same time
Lost Rinkitink: so how do people feel about brands being in second life?
Algernon Spackler: hey SnoopyBrown. Glad you could join us
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: can someone drop a chat history on me so i can catch up real quick?
GetA Nap: yeah - my shopping is usually over inside af few minutes. Fast easy done
Sten Szydlowska: Obviously, being in a virtual world is much more masquerade than real life...
Lost Rinkitink: one of the comments made here in RL earlier was that the culture is somewhat anti-corporate
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: hey glad to be here finally :)
RenZephyr Zircon: virtual / physcal ties, like with an ID tag on a physcial garme must be happening
Errol Mysterio: I think that's a bit like asking people how they feel about capitalism... they're here, more the issue is how they will develop, and whether the landdscape will tilt the balance of power back towards the consumer
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: (i finally got in my changing my login prefs to send me directly here -- good thing to do in the future if you ever have this problem)
RenZephyr Zircon: brands here is interesting from a tchcnal view point - more on that in a bit, it's brands that move out from here that is more innovatory
Errol Mysterio: which I think it will, and already is
Posey Plympton: I think that's true. I'd prefer to have a separate virtual world for my shopping needs.
RenZephyr Zircon: From a technical branding point: the issue is taht in a virtual world you have to integrate with a much stronger view of someones identity aspirations than in teh physcal world
Lost Rinkitink: would you prefer that separate virtual world to be per-brand? coke tried that I believe
RenZephyr Zircon: brands are not yet understanind the hyper-self that exists in teh virtual, the 4Ps of mareking need to be re-configured a litle
Garth Artaud: Aren't there separate branded worlds out there already? The Pussycat Dolls, Virtual Laguna Beach etc.
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: have you guys read paul hemp's "marketing to avatars" in the harvard business review? some great thoughts on that there
RenZephyr Zircon: Coke have Coke studio, ther eis also Disny's v m kindon(based on Habbo) and yes the ther
Errol Mysterio: in the real worlds, brands have pushed us to the point where they control our interactions, by seeming to help us connect. In this world, connection is much easier; I think it will be harder for brands to persuade us they are the gatekeepers between us and each other
RenZephyr Zircon: yes. but i thought that pice showed 'physial world thinking, it did not embrase what is here as Brands need to
RenZephyr Zircon: I'm writing a follo up piece on that HBR one
RenZephyr Zircon: that's the exciting thing, we ahve not grocked the vitual full yet
Algernon Spackler: we started talking about standards, and linking between virtual worlds earlier. Which is more important, one perfect virtual world or lots of interoperable ones?
RenZephyr Zircon: (or whoe ver taht is splt)
RenZephyr Zircon: false dichotomy
Haydern Otsuzum: businesses in the real world have a problem with media fragmenting and new small media companies like bloggers arising - how does tat play out here?
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: lots of interoperable ones make the one big perfect one ;)
Errol Mysterio: I agree. If they're connected, it's kind of the same world
Algernon Spackler: that sounds like a better way of describing it
Lost Rinkitink: time for some photos. Smile!
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: /smile
Lost Rinkitink: lol
Discharge Battery: /smile
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: hehe
RenZephyr Zircon: As I say i think common ID has to be the next step, then we can think of common clients
Sten Szydlowska: :-D
Algernon Spackler: that would go even beyond where the web is today Ren, right?
RenZephyr Zircon: to think of the 'virtual' as the same is to to give pirmcay to the fact of 3D and miss the utility of the spaces
RenZephyr Zircon: it's like saying Word and Excel should ebt eh same as they are both on the PC
RenZephyr Zircon: there is room for a common low level, transport layer, and point apps
RenZephyr Zircon: at some ponit there may be full 3D standards, but lets walk first
Errol Mysterio: but word and excel both exist on the same desktop, which is the unifying metaphoir for the file system. The virtual world seems to be the unifying metaphor; in your analogy, word and excel would be different areas, I think
Algernon Spackler: what sort of standards though?
RenZephyr Zircon: yes, but think of the difference between the web and Word / Excel, they are standard at different levels
Sten Szydlowska: Maybe a "trigger" would be needed. Begin with two worlds sharing the same currency?
RenZephyr Zircon: peopel think of the 3D web as standard at teh hights level
RenZephyr Zircon: no, we can alwasy excahnge currencies
Sten Szydlowska: check
RenZephyr Zircon: i think the hard part is the client
RenZephyr Zircon: can we have a common one accross WoW, SL etc etc
Algernon Spackler: how about profile? friends list?
Algernon Spackler: is the social network being portable important?
Lost Rinkitink: Maybe we are getting a bit too low-level for some participants on the technical side (protocols and stuff)
RenZephyr Zircon: so we get to rendering standards and stuff
Discharge Battery: Oh, I'd like to be the person trying to run that exchange. Next we would have options and futures we could be trading...
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: what do you think of multiverse in that regard?
RenZephyr Zircon: yes, that's what i'm arguing about extensible IDs
RenZephyr Zircon: one sthat link accrss worlds
RenZephyr Zircon: attributes would include relationship,
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: where the kinds of worlds built can be more dramatically different than sl environments, at least at this time
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: but they're all connected through a common client on the same network
RenZephyr Zircon: or at least a plug in that is common to clients
RenZephyr Zircon: that's proabbly next
RenZephyr Zircon: babty steps
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: they're only in beta, but they represent that kind of approach
RenZephyr Zircon: but - does anyone /want/ to walk form WoW to There, to Linage
RenZephyr Zircon: is thre value in that?
RenZephyr Zircon: or can seperate be good?
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: no, you want to tp ;)
RenZephyr Zircon: ok ok, or TP
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: seperate can be good, but man, you've got to be able to get from experience to experience to experience fast
RenZephyr Zircon: for one thing it might break teh metaphre
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: we'll get a new one then
Discharge Battery: Yes, and raid to get real money :-)
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: personally i don't start from the point of view of protecting the magic circle
RenZephyr Zircon: mb, but (puts on iron pants) is it magic cirlce breaking
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: i think those will always be there
RenZephyr Zircon: hihi
Garth Artaud: Why would WoW and LL want to make their systems interoperable in the first place?
Algernon Spackler: Snoop: care to explain the magic circle to everyone?
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: it's the job of the pioneers to keep breaking those circles, allowing you to move between them
Discharge Battery: Crowd participation in development of WoW stuff, better gaming parts in SL?
RenZephyr Zircon: but i dont TP form Jane Austin to Proust
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: and the ppl who want those really deep, immersive places that take lots of time and character play will find them
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: sure you do
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: that's the condition of learning about the world anymore
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: all the books are side by side
RenZephyr Zircon: so what we aer talking about is reducing cross-world swtiching cost (at a techncal level)
Haydern Otsuzum: When we were talking here this morning much was said about Second Lifes incredible potential but nobody really pinned that down to a business oportunity or a clear disruption
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: and your thoughts slide from one to another
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: you're just doing the traveling in your mind
Errol Mysterio: it doesn't cost me anything to switch worlds--I just log into a different client. I think the dividing line between the real and the virtual isn't so clear
RenZephyr Zircon: i actually like the idea of dorrs in SL to WoW, and SL as a social Hub <g>
Errol Mysterio: is there an actual need though? At the moment, my real body is the hub between the differetn worlds I log into
RenZephyr Zircon: there is a cost
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: what's the biggest cost you see?
GetA Nap: seriously - will we see doors between differeent virtual worlds?
RenZephyr Zircon: yoiu drop one group and join another
RenZephyr Zircon: why not drag connection with you
Garth Artaud: I like the door-idea too, but I wonder if the business models allow for that right now.
RenZephyr Zircon: Snoop - you would know, there are sort of x-wrold IM clients now artnt htere?
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: x-fire is one example
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: still waiting for adium to add sl chat to gtalk, aim, etc :)
Errol Mysterio: if you look at IM clients, there are different networks that seem to operate side by side. That would indicate our needs, at least in the short term, are met that way. If you want a cross-network client like xfire you can get one, but most people don't
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: adium is a great example for the web though
RenZephyr Zircon: OK, what do we see as the main value of a single 3D web?
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: interoperability
RenZephyr Zircon: why not ponit applicaitons and big soclai worlds like SL and There?
RenZephyr Zircon: jsut so long as tehre is good cross communicat if peopel want ti?
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: because not anyone can innovate them
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: there.com especially, it's so closed you want to cry sometimes
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: there's a bottleneck of one company controlling it
RenZephyr Zircon: i've said, assume we have beetter corss commjnication, what would be the value not the features of a 3D web?
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: and that can't stand as the be all end all
Algernon Spackler: that's one thing that's helped SL.. they've added features to make calls to the web easy
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: value of having a 3d web generally?
RenZephyr Zircon: yes
Lost Rinkitink: yes. Calls to the web are easy. Interpreting the responses is not!
RenZephyr Zircon: we assume its a good thing, i want to get to the core of whey
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: as a starting point it is the best way to put people into a dynamic shared space
Timo Wilber: 3D at least gives you more opportunities for presenting products on the web, for instance
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: the web is barren of realtime presence and experience atm
Haydern Otsuzum: What about Second Life's social and cultural impact - we know it's a technology that's half way there bt the business opportunity, cultural oportunity and its effects - ??
Algernon Spackler: would part of the value of a 3d web be that anyone can host their own server?
Algernon Spackler: (going back to the value of 3d web question)
RenZephyr Zircon: no, that's 3D spaces, like SL, we can do that, i'm takling about teh vision of a Web like spaces
RenZephyr Zircon: sorry a single Web like space
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: reading back a line or two...
Second Life: Your vote was received.
epredator Potato shouts: thats you avatar in the vote :-)
RenZephyr Zircon: (not arguing against it here, just asking)
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: i'm not sure what you mean by web like 3d spaces, i think, vs. 3d spaces like sl
Timo Wilber: people are so long not moving in front of the computer ...
Garth Artaud: Re. social and cultural - what about SL as a space for political discussion?
RenZephyr Zircon: I mean the vision of a space that is pervasive and standar like the Web but in 3D, not something that is a given, and to a degree, closed priority community,
Timo Wilber: I don't know whether thats healthy ,;(
Garth Artaud: Is it possible to have a public sphere governed by an End User Licence Agreement?
Errol Mysterio: Timo--that will change. The body will come back into virtual worlds quite soon.
RenZephyr Zircon: taht's a good point, there would be no 'joniing' it, no EULA
Discharge Battery: Good question, Garth...
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: i draw the 3d web picture very large myself as well
Lost Rinkitink: like the web, in fact
Timo Wilber: @ Errol , yeah that started already ... just talked about it before ... thje new \nintendo \console \wii ...
Errol Mysterio: It is possible--in a sense, mycontract with my ISP is an EULA for the internet.
Garth Artaud: Right now we're having a meeting in what's essentially an online mall - violate the EULA and you're out.
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: and break it down into three categories of technologies, some of which are off the screen
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: metaverse technologies like sl where you can visualize anything, mirror world technologies like google earth that simulate the world...
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: and augmented reality technologies that bridge the real world with metaverse and mirror world technologies
Garth Artaud: I can always switch ISPs, but what if my access to the metaverse as a whole was governed by one company's EULA?
Timo Wilber: ah cool dind't know that ...
Errol Mysterio: right. But I'm sitting in a university campus hall, but were I to violate acceptable standards here, I would be removed either outside or to prison--every public space is governed by those kinds of agreements
Timo Wilber: that sounds like, yaeh
RenZephyr Zircon: but the pont is good, the EULA is on access not detisation with teh Web
Garth Artaud: Errol, you're right, but there's a difference between publicly owned space and privately owned space.
Discharge Battery: Exactly
RenZephyr Zircon: thought some destinations have their own, but atht's part of the freedome
Algernon Spackler: I wonder about the overlap, and importance, or open *source* vs open *standards*
Lady Serra is Offline
RenZephyr Zircon: pblic private is a but more blurred than that , but i take the point generally
RenZephyr Zircon: standards are key
Garth Artaud: Yes, is open source a way to make the privately owned aspects of the internet into public ownership?
Discharge Battery: But today, defining a standard without attaching some open source version of it would be hard
Garth Artaud: Yes, because there's now a more general awareness that our online public sphere is made possible by shared protocols.
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: we'll have to see if sl joins an open source roster like mozilla w/ firefox and thunderbird
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: i definitely have a picture like that in my head
Timo Wilber: best for the community!
Garth Artaud: Private ownership of protocols is the great Boogeyman of the internet right now
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: i can see the little sl hand right next to the flaming fox and message carrying bird
RenZephyr Zircon: me too, but building in steps to greater, and probably indvidual driven, optional op-in
Garth Artaud: Lovely image there Snoopy
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: we'll see! thinking of mitch kapor on ll's board
RenZephyr Zircon: certainly if Philip tottaly opens up SL tech, he woudl go down in history, and I imagien taht is his vision
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: "i have a wonderful open source home for sl"
Timo Wilber: I can see already RL parties with SL users
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: yes, i have to wonder about the investors in sl, and the ambition beyond money that exists
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: "what's the business model?"
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: "well, we're going to build the mother honkin' 3d web of course!"
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: ha
RenZephyr Zircon: I have vies but i'm not sure we want to get into the future of SL specaillfylly here
Garth Artaud: Speaking of investment, what would happen to the exchange market in $L if SL went open source?
Lost Rinkitink: that currency question is very interesting!
RenZephyr Zircon: good question
Algernon Spackler: so what role do people think there is for people like IBM in the 3d web / 3D Internet
Lost Rinkitink: aha
Algernon Spackler: oops. two good questions at once :-)
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: google would swoop in and turn it over to google dollars, shortly there after the true woofie economy begins
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: :)
Algernon Spackler: lets do currency first
RenZephyr Zircon: can we do curency fist
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: if you're read down and out in the magic kingdo
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: m
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: i 1/2 kid ;)
RenZephyr Zircon: Has anyone read teh SL EULA section on Linden Dollars?
RenZephyr Zircon: it's intereting
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: what's the most interesting part?
RenZephyr Zircon: you will see that the trade is in a liscense
RenZephyr Zircon: now given encryption and stuff
RenZephyr Zircon: i wonder if that could be oped up, just so long was we got teh srust chain right
RenZephyr Zircon: would lindin be the global virtual wrold bank?
Second Life: Your vote was received.
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: that's one of their possible futures
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: and business models
RenZephyr Zircon: :)
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: though search me for exactly how! :)
Algernon Spackler: I heard Babbage Linden say that having gone Open Source, they would manage the namespace
Garth Artaud: Most online worlds have that banking ambition, I think.
Algernon Spackler: that struck me as interesting
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: yes
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: i wonder about that too
Errol Mysterio: yes, they would become like Versign
Errol Mysterio: Verisign
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: especially since the metaverse namespace should not suck as bad as url namespace
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: lol
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: we need to be able to have things w/ the same name
RenZephyr Zircon: we would then get into ICANN like governance issues
Algernon Spackler: we have about 10 more minutes
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: almost like tying shop.com into a browser and then getting a choice of 5,000 things named shop.com
RenZephyr Zircon: LL as RIPE / ARON etc, hmm
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: instead of one person owning it
Algernon Spackler: so what role do people think there is for people like IBM in the 3d web / 3D Internet?
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: throw support at the laggy sim! get this place running like a cheetah! :)
RenZephyr Zircon: I'll send you a break down of my consulting cfees for the answer to that <G>
Garth Artaud: IBM - arent' you guys developing your own secure, intranet-based 3D enviro?
Errol Mysterio: As soon as Linden Lab or whoever open-source their server software, many companies will want to manage their own servers for security's sake
Algernon Spackler grins at Ren
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: errol, w/out doubt
RenZephyr Zircon: I think taht the way that IBM has embraced Open stuff, is a big positive
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: electric sheep does most of our business in sl
Garth Artaud: I dare you, say something about IBMs R&D strategy on Linden servers!
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: and we'd love to be able to keep our work on our machines
Errol Mysterio: :)
RenZephyr Zircon: facilitating stuff like this is good, in the end it pushed tin
Algernon Spackler: Garth: we've not made any announcements that I know of about developing anything :-)
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: we can see it on your face algernon ;)
Errol Mysterio: I have a personal shared hosting webpage, and something similar in virtual worlds, as long as it was visitable from whatever client and server network bcame the standards, would suit me too
RenZephyr Zircon: i wonder if with IBMs history of how futures become real, they can inject some very usesful futurist thought to this
Errol Mysterio: I seee what you were getting at with personal / private spaces now
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: distilling truth from the vapors of nuance as it were ;)
Algernon Spackler: Ren: thanks. Yes.. I don't think we (or anyone) is going to be doing much our own. Wroking collaboratively is pretty key here
Garth Artaud: Algernon, if I was IBM, I'd be looking into it - a secure, inhouse version of SL would definitely sell if you're working on a 3d web version of the e-business model.
RenZephyr Zircon: as long as IBM dont try to own it, then you are goind good, evetrythign else is abonus
Algernon Spackler: SnoopyBrown: I do love spotting a good Snow Crash reference :-)
Lady Serra is Offline
Errol Mysterio: IBM seem very well positioned to help midwife the transition to a more public space, in which I as a resident don't have to worry about the back-end at all--so many Second Life conversations are about servers not working
Lost Rinkitink: "midwife a transition" - bizarre metaphor, but cool
RenZephyr Zircon: i think if IBM fund a few specail interst groups to do more than just talk about thingsit woudl be good
Timo Wilber: there is both corporate \7 noncorporate ...
RenZephyr Zircon: talk to Snoop about the Metaverse road map and start to flesh out someof the nodes with Sun and Linden and There etc
RenZephyr Zircon: get some telco's in too
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: getting someone off phone, sorry!
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: bother me at all hours
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: i saw metaverse roadmap scroll by, looking... :)
RenZephyr Zircon: give u the props there dude
Jamest Barnett is Offline
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: yea man, high level doc out in a week
Algernon Spackler: yes.. I (personally) think we need to be involved in that, and those sort of activities
RenZephyr Zircon: so let'd do something
RenZephyr Zircon prods IBM with a stick
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: there's a major summit being planned for fall 2007 though i have to say there are some pretty wild partnership opportunities i'm trying to figure out
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: for where the metaverse roadmap will go in 2007
RenZephyr Zircon: i'm thinking of pciking some bits out and focusing, was well as the big swinging vision
Algernon Spackler: this is good stuff.. I can imagine you're having fun Snoop. Fall 2007 is a long way away though...
Garth Artaud: There's also the question of trust in the IBM brand - what role could it play in developing 3D web mass adoption?
RenZephyr Zircon: i'd like to see us try to push some areas beyond vision
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: it is and it isn't to really get the focus of coversation right
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: and bring together a representative group of people w/ the power to make change
RenZephyr Zircon: good, wd Snoop
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: there will be helpful things along the way before that, no doubt
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: fall 2007 will be here tomorrow :p
RenZephyr Zircon: teh IBM brand is in a fully place right now
Lost Rinkitink: ren, can you clarify?
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: yes mauritius
Garth Artaud: Funny how, Ren?
RenZephyr Zircon: it probably has most power in the B2B sphere, helping faclitate collaboration
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: we're all figuring this out now w/ these experiments
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: though it's fascinating to review the history of virtual worlds
RenZephyr Zircon: i'm not sure how it sits in respect of consumers, Anshee is probably a better brand for that
RenZephyr Zircon: go do a deal with her - want an intor <wink>
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: because almost anything you can imagine being tried has been tried in baby form
Algernon Spackler: (need to wrap up in a couple of minutes)
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: and there are a lot of lessons already learned that we haven't assimilated yet
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: vw pioneer bruce damer was over at my place the other day
RenZephyr Zircon: yes, snoop, i think IBM can braing help with the fact that they have a deep histry
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: and he gave an amazing talk here on the history of virtual worlds that added up to a kind of formula for sl
RenZephyr Zircon: i read an onld book on VR, and it sounded like a LL press releas
Garth Artaud: How far back did the history go?
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: where he saw sl doing something new was actually w/ the real money trade economy
RenZephyr Zircon: it would be good to get some old VR heads on this
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: and his life goal is now documenting all the old vw history
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: bruce is back in action, ren
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: you should hit him up
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: he's harvesting all the old stories
Algernon Spackler: yes. there has been so much research already into VR. We're relearning all those lessons :-)
RenZephyr Zircon: v cool!
Timo Wilber: VR has come a long way now ...
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: you know there's actually quite a rift, i'm sure you're well aware
RenZephyr Zircon: yes
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: between the oldbies and the newbies
RenZephyr Zircon: LambdaMOO did more thatn SL has on many issues
RenZephyr Zircon: we forget the hitory of the virtual so quckly
Algernon Spackler: ok. need to wrap up.
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: many of them feel like they're not getting their props for getting us here
Algernon Spackler: I wish we had longer though - this has been great
RenZephyr Zircon: (sorry Bartle just grabbed my keyboard off me there )
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: and that we're lacking fundamentals
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: it's hard though, because personally, the kind of metaverse influence i have is
Lost Rinkitink: ok time to close off
GetA Nap: ok
Algernon Spackler: so, thanks very much for joining today everyone
RenZephyr Zircon: yes, there is a lot of arrogonce in the virtula , read stuff 10., 20 years old, there has been a lot of though, we wiast time re-inventing not innovating
Algernon Spackler: I really enjoyed this
Garth Artaud: cool - it's been a treat
RenZephyr Zircon: let's innovate together !!!
Algernon Spackler: I hope we can do it (and more) again
Timo Wilber: I won't forget the histroy of \vr so quciklz , \ref, since \i'm still writing about it ..!
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: 1/3 vw, 1/3 game design, 1/3 web 2.0. very different thinking from someone who's all closed mmo
Algernon Spackler: I'll leave the group running, though you may lose access to IQ island later
Timo Wilber: ah sorry REN
Lost Rinkitink: great conversation. I've been more of an interested observer but the points have been excellent.
SNOOPYbrown Zamboni: anyone sticking around for a while?
Algernon Spackler: right. I'm off. thanks everyone...
RenZephyr Zircon: what's the followup?
Timo Wilber: good Q
Algernon Spackler: feel free to hang, though the IBMers may be a bit unresponsive. We have real world guests to look after.
Garth Artaud: too bad ther's no pub around here
Algernon Spackler: thanks everyone. We'll be in touch. :-)